Judging comments from another perspective

5/17/2011

Bob and Don Denner of Boondoggle BBQ at their first KCBS competition.

As a competitor first and a judge second, Herb asked me to be a blog columnist on BBQ Critic and to write as a competitor. Like the other bloggers on this site, I have the bug and have had it for years.

In 2007, I started cooking competitively with my brother Don. Together we formed Boondoggle BBQ and to date have competed in nearly 35 competitions - generally in Iowa, Missouri and Kansas. We have also competed in Minnesota and Tennessee with hopes of making it to Texas then Arkansas later this year.

After nearly a handful of competitions in 2007, we realized we were not having much success and our results were not improving. At that point Don and I both decided to take the KCBS judging class with hopes that we'd learn what judges were looking for. I took the class near KC and within a month or so, Don took the class in Omaha. I believe it was our first competition after taking the classes that we received our first call.

Did the class make us better cooks? No, but it probably did help us turn in a product that was more suited for what KCBS judges are trained to judge upon.

Over our next few years, we had some ups and downs as competition cooks. With the help of other team, a few cooking classes, and many personal experiences we learned that just because one cooks each category the same every competition, it does not always mean the quality of the turn in is the same. Bland/Bitter ... Salty/Sweet ... Melt in your mouth/Chewy ... while prepping the meats might be a science, boxing the meats can definitely be an art - and not only visually.

Since 2007, I've judged a handful of times. Unfortunately, I did not judge at all in the 2010 season and I need to make an effort to get out and judge a few times this year. The few times I have judged, I have learned something that can help make me a better competitor simply by discussing entries with the other judges.

I look forward to contribute to BBQ Critic from a cookers perspective, but first thought I should share a short biography of my BBQ experiences. I'm open to suggestion on topics, so if you have something you'd like to hear about from a cooks standpoint just let me know.

6 Comments

Herb - Master BBQ Judge

5/17/2011 17:03:17

Glad to have you aboard, Bob!

One important note is that your team "BOONDOGGLE" won the GRAND CHAMPION at the 30th Annual American Royal Barbecue - Open.

I was there and it was a thrill to see the win in person. Wishing you the best of luck in 2011.:-)

Herb

Rookie'48

5/18/2011 14:29:38

Hey Bob, welcome! I'm interested in seeing how you look at things from a cook's perspective.

Hance - MIM/MBN CBJ

5/18/2011 23:02:23

Welcome Bob.

I started competition barbecue from a judges perspective and as such it became readily apparent that as a competitor, having the ability to see what comes across the table at competitions, learning the actual level of the product that comes across, and to then hear how other people perceive (and subsequently judge) the entries can be crucial in the success of a good competition barbecue cook.

Likewise, I'm of the opinion that barbecue judges get better at judging barbecue by spending time actually competing and also by judging other sanctioning bodies barbecue. If we're doing it right, we're learning something new every day.

I started competing more to improve my judging skills; knowing that I'd learn things that I couldn't fathom needed to be learned. Along the way I've now been bitten by the competition bug and consider myself more of a competitor than a judge, just not on the competition "tour" as you guys! Hat's off to the guys who really put the miles behind 'em and compete regularly!

Boondoggle Bob

5/19/2011 10:28:58

Dave,
Are you wondering about something specific or just in general as how a competitor evaluates a turn in compared to a judge?

Rookie'48

6/26/2011 13:20:20

Bob, I was wanting to hear more of how you as a competitor look at your entry before you turn it in. And do the scores thhat you get reflect your opinion or not. Thanx, Dave

Raine® KCBS CBJ CTC Cooking team link

7/28/2014 00:02:56

We have been competing 17 years, and judging for 14. We have also assisted with several judges classes and taken Rep training.

When I judged I try to go by what I was taught. To judge each entry based on it's merit. Based on how the team presented it, not based on my personal preferences or what I think it should be.

I think KCBS leaves some gray area and judges come up with their own expectations, and those expectation vary from judge to judge.

I think it is good for teams to judge for a couple of reasons.
1. To get insight on what judges are thinking and why they score the way they do.
2. To give judges insight on what a team goes through, especially since so many of the judges don't even cook, let alone cook bbq.

I think KCBS could a better job in educating judges, especially given that so many don't cook bbq. And if you ever helped with a judging class you might agree. Stories I could tell from judging classes.

I don't deduct points if the ribs or chicken are not all the same size and shape. The chickens didn't come that way, ribs don't all grow straight at the same width. Nothing in the rules that say all portions are to identical.

You can present a nice looking box without all portions being equal.

Judges will give teams a good score because they all traveled a long distance and spent a lot of money to compete, yet deduct points because the chicken looks like chicken and not tennis balls, or deduct points because the ribs weren't identical in size, shape or width. Really?

There are many teams, if not most who when buying meat for a contest will travel to multiple stores look through maybe 100 racks of ribs or butts looking for their entries.
And in all that looking a team may not be able to find a butt with a decent money muscle, or straight bones.

So the team has to go with what is available to them, pick the best of what is offered. The team has no control over how the animal/bones grew, or control over how the animal was butchered. Teams have to make a decision at some point, because you know what a team scores if they turn in nothing or less than 6 pieces.

Should a team be dinged and have points deducted for things they have no control over?

Comments from judges about 1 rib bone being pulled back more than another or the others. Maybe that portion of the rack or that rack was in a hotter spot than the rest, or some other reason it pulled back more than the rest. And if that rib is the best of what a team has to put in the box, then the team has to go with it.

Heard a table captain telling judges that if you give a team a 6 they are not going to win. Not necessarily so, the low score gets thrown out. At the end of the day, there is only 1 winner. All teams are not going to win.

So, if the entry deserves a 6 (or whatever score) then score that way. Even the top teams in the country have a bad day, or they goofed up something, they are human, have things that happen that are out of their control.

When a judge can only score every entry an 8 or 9 it really is a dis-service to all teams. To the team who got the 8 or 9 and didn't deserve. That team is going to think they are doing good, and may not rethink or feel they need to change or improve anything. And to the teams who really deserved to place higher than team losses out.

Also, comment cards......judges please use them. Teams complained and fought for so long to get them, and now most judges won't use comment cards.

Comment cards for what a team is doing right, why did you give them a 9? Why was it excellent?

A 7 without a comment. What does that really tell a team? Did I get a 7 because it was too tender, or did I get a 7 because it was too tough?

When I judge I use comment cards, the teams want feedback.

Just my perspective.

Judging comments from another perspective

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Bob Denner

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