What type of pork box would get higher scores?

8/16/2012

Question

When turning in Pork Shoulder which would get higher scores: A box with just pulled pieces of pork or a box with slices and pulled pork?

Thank you!

Scott Hayes
Fort Mohave, AZ

Competition Cook
Contest Organizer
BBQ Team: Smokey Hayes BBQ

Ike, CBJ/KCBS

8/15/2012 09:27:04 pm

Honestly, a box with both would probably score higher as long as it was displayed correctly. The thing to remember is that judges should judge both types of pork so be sure they are both tender and cooked to perfection.

Kelly

9/23/2012 01:36:37 am

When you say "correctly" exactly what do you mean? And when you say both types of pork are you saying that the correct way to turn in pork is the box containing two types of pork, and what are they? What part of the country do you judge in?

Ike/CBJ/KCBS

10/17/2012 09:46:40 pm

Kelly,

When I mention "both" I'm referring to pulled and sliced pork. Also, if you're going to use both in your box please don't just put in a heap of meat....keep them divided so they can be judged on their own merits. And finally, I judge mainly in the eastern half of Kansas.

Greg Hoyt, CBJ

8/15/2012 09:36:07 pm

I agree with Ike and would like to add go got balance in presentation, tenderness and flavor. Don't forget the bark!

Bill cbj kcbs

8/15/2012 09:55:28 pm

It doesn't matter to me whether it is pulled or sliced as long it looks good. I do think that if you put sliced in, you should fill up the box with pulled just because it makes the box fuller and full boxes tend to look better

Bob

8/15/2012 10:38:04 pm

I like to see both. It is nice to see that you can pull it nicely, but some pieces that I can feel how it pulls is better. Slices or cubes don't let me know if it pulls.

M@ CBJ KCBS

8/15/2012 10:42:43 pm

My advice would be not to force your self into several different presentations. Had a couple boxes this year with 3 presentations and one was "off" causing the box overall to score lower. Example: One box had pulled + sliced + chopped. The sliced and chopped had excellent texture, but the pulled was mushy. Went from a 9 to a 7

Frank CBJ

8/15/2012 11:06:43 pm

Judges are required to score what is presented to them. Although I do not agree with them, I believe some judges will score combination presentations higher than pulled pieces. This is a personal preference that should not enter into the scoring. I prefer to see nice slices of money muscle along with pulled pieces, but I will score any presentation on its own merits. The danger of multiple presentations is that one type may score lower than the other. You could have a pulled pork that scores 9 and a sliced that is off and scores a 7 - that will average to an 8. If you cook for both presentations and you believe one is superior to the other, only use your best presentation.

Craig Sharry link

8/18/2012 04:40:29 am

Very well said. Thank you.

Bill F.

8/16/2012 12:02:45 am

All else being equal, the mixed box will probably get the nod.

Deb MCBJ/CTC

8/16/2012 12:03:36 am

To be honest, it isn't whether there is "sliced vs pulled" or "combinations" that makes any difference to me- it's all about the way the meat is presented, how it tastes and whether it's cooked properly. Side note- bark is nice too, but if it isn't included, the score isn't going to suffer. We are judging what is presented (not what we wish for).

Keith Barrack

8/16/2012 12:07:43 am

I put sliced and pulled in my boxes and try to show some nice bark. I also make sure that there is enough of each for the judges and some extra for the table captain and grazing. Also try to make it balanced in appearance. Don't forget to taste your samples too.

Tim

8/16/2012 01:00:15 am

I like to see a loaded box. Variety in a box provides a nicer visual. My personal tastes are not real favorable to pulled pork, so for me, slices and/or chunks are more visually appealing. So I think the question to you is, "How many other judges are there out there with tastes similar to mine?"

Kelly

9/23/2012 04:14:28 am

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought a KCBS judge was supposed to judge on what is presented and not their personal taste??

Dick-MCBJ/CTC

8/16/2012 01:21:22 am

Scott, I'm not sure I fully understand your question. Are you reffering to appearence, taste, tenderness, or all three? Since you used the word scoreS I will assume you were asking for all three. I feel a box with two meats appears fuller and easier for the team to balance and will usually receive a better score. As for the taste and tenderness I believe the cooking team must be absolutely sure that both slices and pulled are both equal or they should only place the best in the box. I do not like to see finely shredded pork at all, so the entry should be nice larger pieces of PULLED pork. I also believe that a team that places three types of meat ( shredded, pulled, and sliced) into the turn in box is really taking a hugh chance. A few weeks ago I had a box that had both pulled and sliced. It was a great entry and scored 9 on appearence. When it came to taste and tenderness the pulled scored nines and the sliced, which had a large piece of grizzle in it scored sevens. Most of the other judges didn't have a bad piece of the sliced and it scored mostly eights and nines. This cooking team made a mistake by not paying closer attention to what they placed in the box. I believe that the person cuting the meat would have seen or felt the gristle when they sliced it. I would never score a box down for only having a single type of meat in the box and I truly believe that this makes for a easier and a safer entry for the cooks. Just please make sure that you don't leave the box looking stingy. My personal preference is nice larger pieces of pulled with the bark mixed in to add to the color, but we are to judge what is presented, not what we prefer.

Doug KCBS Master CBJ & CTC

8/16/2012 01:41:56 am

I think it is difficult to make a pile of pulled pork look appetizing. I have seen it done, but not very often. Adding slices or chunks or both, provides more variety and probably will look better. Just remember, if it is in the box it will be sampled. So make sure all the types of pork, pulled, sliced, and/or chunks are the best. Like other judges have mentioned I average them all together to get a final score. You can have one type be the best I have ever had and another be mediocre and your score will dragged down by that.

Keith CBJ

8/16/2012 01:53:26 am

You'll probably get answers here that run the gamut but my .02 is this:

For appearance -- it SHOULDN'T matter either way as long as what you turn in looks 9) excellent, 8) very good etc.... but the reality is that some will judge 2 or 3 ways higher than just pulled. Each entry on it's own merit is the rule but not always the reality. Personally I will award you a 9 for excellent looking pulled pork just as quickly as I would for a box of excellent looking pulled and chopped with sliced MM. My limited cooking experience has shown me that just serving it pulled can draw 9s from some and 7s from others.

And here's the kicker -- some judges will take the the inferior of the two/three styles and award that for your all-important *taste* score as well. It ain't right but there it is.

Bottom line is that it can swing either way from judge to judge and table to table and unfortunately there is no concrete answer that can be given here. For whatever reason judges training provides no specifics in this area -- we are left to our own devices.

Tom KCBS MCBJ

8/16/2012 02:20:22 am

A box with pulled, selected moist chunks and sliced money mussel allways seems to bring a happy response from judges as hard as we try not to show it. That said if one of those components did not turn out as well as the rest do not put it in the box.

Doc CBJ, Chef and Team Captain link

8/16/2012 08:33:51 am

It doesn't matter to me, as long as it looks great. Whatever is in the box, better be the best that you have and make we want to climb over the table to get into it. :) That is what earns a 9 from me. Also be aware, if you put two or three different cuts of meat in the box, I am going to judge each of them as an individual piece. If one of those cuts doesn't hit the marks, I'm judging the whole box down. The fewer choices you give a judge, for taste and tenderness, the better.

rod

8/16/2012 10:08:28 am

cbj/team cook, I agree with Doc on this one,if you put more than 1 cut of meat in the box make dang sure all of them are top notch,I also like to see some bark and some smoke ring it tells me I'm about to dig into some tasty vittles.

BBQ Critic

8/16/2012 05:34:09 pm

Rod - We are not allowed to factor the "Smoke Ring" into our appearance scores per KCBS. The "Smoke Ring" can be easily fabricated.

-- Herb

Jim H - CBJ SBN/KCBS

8/16/2012 12:58:28 pm

Others have already answered the question: Judges are trained to assess what is presented to them. While some have preferences, the goal is to judge what's in the box. Simply stated, appearance is the first part of the "eating" trilogy: seeing, smelling, tasting! If it looks like it's good, it'll be scored accordingly. If it's pulled or if it has bark, medallions, and pulled, it still needs to make you want to eat it!

Tom - CBJ w/KCBS, MBN, NCPC & comp cook

8/17/2012 07:26:12 am

WOW! What a question. Assuming you are asking for all three criterion, here goes - IMHO - For appearance: I prefer to see more than one "type" of meat in a turn-in box; HOWEVER, this isn't about what "I like", this is about what looks best. If the chopped looks great and the sliced looks just okay, then definitely just put in the chopped! If both look the same quality, then put in both. From a taste and tenderness perspective, you'd best be sure that you don't have some bad stuff in with the good stuff or you will be seeing scores you wouldn't have seen with just the good stuff. This isn't about what the judge likes or wants to see/taste/feel in his/her mouth, this is about GOOD barbecue! Judge it as it is presented!

Mike/ Master CBJ

8/18/2012 05:52:04 am

Funny- I think I may be the lone judge who thinks that a pile of pulled pork = heaven! I absolutely prefer pulled pork over sliced money muscle. But, pulled/sliced/chunks- if it looks GREAT=9! Something about a great big pile of pulled pork makes me want to grab some warm, toasted home made rolls and go to town!!!!

Tom KCBS MCBJ

8/18/2012 09:41:18 am

Mike where I live and judge contests are extremely competitive if you do not have a neatly arranged box with extraordinary meat you will not be in the upper portion of the scores. Allmost all of the top winning teams are turning in 3 meats that all look and taste amazing. A pile of pulled does not get you there any more on appearance.

Mike/ KCBS Master CBJ

8/19/2012 02:57:54 pm

Tom.

Where one lives irrelevant. I've yet to visit, cook at or judge a KCBS contest that wasn't highly competitive.

If you look at my comment above, I included the caveat "if it looks GREAT=9" not, "if it looks like a pile of cold catfood"

KCBS rule 16 states, "Chicken, pork and brisket may be submitted chopped, pulled, sliced, or diced AS THE COOK SEES FIT, as long as there is enough for six (6) judges." (My emphasis added.) If you score lower for a neatly arranged pile of extraordinary looking pulled pork than a neatly arranged box of extraordinary looking pulled, sliced and chunked pork- that is unfair and contrary to KCBS rules. You don't get extra points for having all three preparations of meat and you don't get penalized for having one preparation of meat.

Pork Box 107 is not what I was talking about. That's a little too finely pulled in my opinion and looks stringy, unappealing to the eyes. Something more like the lower right corner of Pork Box 110 blended with the upper right corner of Pork Box 111. Bottom line? I was simply saying that I love pulled pork. A note!!! I am also one of the few judges who LOVES a (really dang good-looking) chicken leg.......

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What type of pork box would get higher scores?

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