Are KCBS judges more or less likely to be current or former cooks?

4/25/2013

QUESTION

Are KCBS judges more or less likely to be current/former cooks? On various forums I hear comments about "Judges nitpicking the look of the box" as far as scoring goes and it got me to wondering if this is because they are cooks themselves or does it happen because they have never lit a pit but are Certified Judges? I currently cook in other sanctioned c/o's but am looking to start KCBS next year and was looking for all the info I can get before I jump in!

Russell Wehmeyer
Meridian, TX

Ron Haag

4/24/2013 10:38:36 pm

I am a cook. I would rather cook at a contest then judge it any day. I gate when I'm sitting at a table and a piece of meat goes by that looks really good and the judge beside me only gives it a 6. I hear it all the time. After the meat is scored and we can talk they will say that it doesn't look as good as the other or it doesnt look wet or dry enough. I just want to scream at them but I bite my tounge.
I can't wait till all judging is consistent

Chaz D

4/24/2013 11:32:40 pm

I have never cooked an event (yet! I intend to soon) but at the contests ive judged i find a pretty decent mix of cooks and non cooks which i think is perfect for proper judging. The cooks give the other judges insight into the processes that got that wonderful meat to the table and the non judges should be providing an unbiased point of view. So, while the actual percentages will vary i am sure there is usually a healthy mix.

Ike CBJ/KCBS

4/25/2013 12:10:10 am

I have been judging bbq for about 11 years and in most contests the majority of the judges are not cooks. Having a judge at your table who has cooked in competition definitely adds another opinion to the discussions after the cards are turned in. Competition cooks who are judging tend to be a little more critical on their scores, I guess it's because they have been there and done that. These differing opinions are what makes bbq contests so much fun.

Bill cbj kcbs

4/25/2013 12:12:05 am

I don't think being a cook necessarily makes you a good judge any more than being a judge makes you a good cook. They both take practice. I think the more time that is taken after the cards are turned in discussing the meat and the reason for the scores given, the easier it is for the new guys to learn how to properly judge. As to the ratio of judges to cooks inside the judging tent, I would say it is usually 70/30.

Tom - CBJ w/ KCBS, MBN, NCPC & comp cook

4/25/2013 01:35:59 am

In answer to the question: “Are KCBS judges more or less likely to be current/former cooks?” – less likely (IMHO).

I’d say that it is common to see about 15-25% of the CBJs at any KCBS contest that are either current or former KCBS cooks. Another 20-40% have tried their hand at smoking meats (either in their backyard or a contest sanctioned by another organization), and the remainder have NEVER tried smoking period.
Now, concerning the rest of the OP’s comments – “nitpicking the look of the box” has NOTHING to do with having cooked or not (again IMHO). Judges are to evaluate each box on the criteria provided by KCBS and nothing else. While “Appearance” scoring is VERY subjective, there shouldn’t be a great differentiation between the opinion of a cook or that of a non-cook when looking at the same entry.

As far as “looking for all the info I can get before I jump in!” – I would strongly suggest that you take the KCBS CBJ class to increase your knowledge on what the judges are looking for (according to that particular instructor). Knowledge is power; therefore, the more you know going into competition the better you should understand how your product will be judged. From there it is critical self-examination of your product along with trial and error.
GOOD LUCK!!!

Frank KCBS MCBJ CTC

4/25/2013 01:35:59 am

The majority of judges are not competition cooks. In my experience the majority are either competition cooks or backyard enthusiasts who own one or more smokers and have a passion for BBQ. Of course there is often an influx of new judges with little experience following a training class where up to 80 to 100 new judges are trained. Of course judging is primarily on-the-job training and it takes a good number of contests before one becomes confident in their judging ability. The reason I became a judge was to learn more about BBQ, what good BBQ looks and tastes like according to the "experts", and how to improve my backyard results. One of the problems with the variability in judges' scores is that there is more subjectivity than objectivity in the written KCBS judging rules (or any of the sanctioning BBQ body rules that I am aware of). Each judge has his/her own thoughts about appearance, taste and tenderness. There are few objective standards for judging. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Few objective standards permits more creativity in the pit. We can decrease that variability to some extent by openly dissing our scores with our fellow table judges. Unfortunately there is not alot of time to do that, but as a table Captain or Master Judge, I try to encourage discussion during the short time we have between entries. This helps a bit, but will never cure the inherent issues with subjective scoring, especially when there are few objective standards.

Frank KCBS MCBJ CTC

4/25/2013 02:32:47 am

Whoops! Not sure how to edit this but the fourth line from the bottom should read "...discussing our scores..." not "...dissing our scores...". Big difference!

Ed KCBS MCBJ

4/25/2013 02:05:24 am

KCBS judges are just a normal mish mash of personalitys, occupations, ages, ethnisity etc.etc.etc.
I know some who indeed are competition cooks, some are backyard cooks, some have never lit a match.
The only thing they all have in common is the wish to immerse themselves in the world of competition BBQ in some way.
In all honesty you will never understand us nor should you, that being said no matter where the top teams travel the cream usually rises to the top so we judges must be working as a group somehow.

Mercy KCBS CBJ

4/25/2013 02:06:52 am

I am a new judge, only 4 contests so far. I am not a cook, except in my kitchen and I am a food writer. Have loved Q my whole life, always been my favorite food and get it when and where I can. I am learning on the job at comps. But one thing that is great, is if your score isn't somewhat consistent with others at your table, the captain will call you on it and ask why so. Happened to me at my 2nd comp. I scored the ribs (my fave category) quite low. They explained why my score had to be thrown out. Yes, somewhat subjective, but those are the rules. I wish I was into Q'ing for myself, but I'm not. But I'm learning a lot on the comp circuit and from my fellow judges as we discuss after each category. I truly can't wait to cook on a team to learn even more. .

Greg MCBJ/KCBS

4/25/2013 05:43:52 am

In any venue, knowledge is golden. The best knowledge is gained from experience at all things related to the subject at hand. At most contests most judges have less than 20 contests under their belt and have never cooked or even become friends with a cook team. That is the way it has been and will probably continue.

SusyS KSBC/NEBS

7/27/2013 10:44:27 am

Greg-With all due respect, are you taking a tally at every contest? 'At most contests most judges have less than 20 contests under their belt and have never cooked...' Are you a contest coordinator who signs the red books?

Perhaps it varies by region, but I have NEVER been at a table with a judge who doesn't cook, and many I have met compete. Yes, I have more than 20 under my belt.

And as far as how many contests, a judge can only get to 20+ one way-by starting at 1. I disagree that experience makes you a better judge. I've seen some crazy scores, beliefs and rigidness from seasoned judges who assume they know best because they've been at it so long. Newer judges take their task very seriously.

I get frustrated with the complaints and assumptions about judges not being cooks or not taking bbq seriously. Like the people I have met, I started judging because of my love of bbq and because it has made me a better cook.

Comments are closed.

Are KCBS judges more or less likely to be current or former cooks?

BBQ FAQ for Cooks and Judges

FAQ on judging competition BBQ