Do BBQ judges talk about garnish?

7/26/2012

Question

While there is no plan for KCBS to go away from having a choice of green garnish or not, do you hear other judges talk about the garnish or the lack therof in boxes even though you are taught to only judge the meat?

BJ Hoffman
Windsor Heights, IA

Competition Cook
Certified BBQ Judge (KCBS)
BBQ Team: Honeybadger BBQ

JUDGES ARE CURRENTLY SUBMITTING ANSWERS

Bill cbj kcbs

7/25/2012 11:38:37 pm

The only time anyone at the tables I have been on have talked about garnish was to ask if it was legal or not when not recognizing exactly what type it was. Other than that - no.

Ike, CBJ/KCBS

7/25/2012 11:42:35 pm

Even though we as judges are not to notice garnish, I believe it helps give a contrast to the box. Also, by building up the garnish under a sample it raises the meat up and gives you a closer look. I will not score a sample down due to lack of garnish.

Bill

7/25/2012 11:46:11 pm

KCBS CBJ
Mainly about small leaf or small cut pieces when you pull the sample from the box and it all sticks to the bottom. So you then spend time picking off those pieces rather than jumping into that piece you want to try so bad. I really have heard nothing about "lack of" in the box. I have seen some entries without garnish. I do not score down for lack of. My only look at garnish is qucik and to the point - legal or not legal.

Mike Cannon

7/25/2012 11:58:40 pm

The samples on this site almost always feature some comment on the garnish. I was taught(1st KCBS judging class) to ignore the garnish when judging appearance. I wondered why it was there if we were supposed to ignore it. Judge comments on this and other sites seem to indicate that the garnish is being counted toward the appearance criteria. I feel that this is incorrect. If I were king, I would remove the garnish from the boxes.

Doc Kenneson, KCBS CBJ, Chef link

7/26/2012 12:00:58 am

Yes and it pisses me off! I know judges that will mark down points for no garnish, others who will nitpick the garnish and take off points and they openly talk about it. I believe KCBS and the Reps need to be made more aware of the judges who are doing this and ask them to leave the competition area or require them to go back through a training class before judging again. I get soooo angry about this subject! There are some judges out there who need to be thanked for their time and asked to never judge again and that includes more than a few Master judges!

Billy, CBJ, BBQ Comp Cook

11/27/2012 07:50:24 am

Any comments from judges as you mentioned need to be reported to the TC or the Rep immediately so the issue can be quickly addressed.

Ed KCBS MCBJ

7/26/2012 01:01:23 am

Oh boy, greens....
While instructed not to judge greenery on it's own merit you are also instructed to judge it's ability to "frame" the meat.
What's a poor judge to do?
Does a crappy greenery job affect the overall look of your box?
Does a putting green that lifts the meat and highlights your cooking skill help the overall presentation?
The answer is a well done garnish pleases the eye and when judging for appearence that's what you use.
Do you add or deduct points? I don't consciously do it but I think it's still is in my head.
Personally I would like to see fresh garnish replaced by a 9X9 green meat pad (like store bought steak).
Now there's an even playing field.

Frank CBJ

7/26/2012 01:25:14 am

I have not heard any judge mention garnish when discussing the entries after completion of judging each category unless there had been a question of whether or not the garnish was not an allowed type. That said, I see that some judges (very few) on this site appear to take garnish into consideration when scoring a box. There have been comments on the lack of garnish in the one or two instances it occured in my judging experiences; however, there was consensus that lack of garnish did not influence any of the judges' scoring. I would be a strong proponent of eliminating garnish or limiting it to a sheet of foil as in the IBCA rules. Let the meat stand on its own with no garnish confusion.

Deb/KCBS CBJ/CTC

7/26/2012 01:49:53 am

While I can honestly say I have never heard a judge say they deducted for the garnish used or the lack of garnish (unless it was illegal), it HAS been discussed after the scores were turned in that an entry might have looked better/worse with or without the garnish. Some cooks go overboard with the garnish and end up hiding the product they worked so hard to present. On the other hand, a simple presentation of "meat only" can be very appealing. If a cook chooses to use garnish, they need to understand that it is a balancing act- the garnish should not take the spotlight, but is a nice accent to the main event: it's all about the meat.

buzz--cbj--cook

7/26/2012 01:52:56 am

think most of the garnish talk comes about when it detracts from the meat---sloppy placements, meat buried in garnish----think the box is well made garnish isn't really noticed as a separate entity--just part of the picture. Judges do comment when parsley/lettuce is stuck to the meat
good garnish doesn't garner great scores but bad garnish can detract--imo anyways

Lorne Rae

7/26/2012 02:07:09 am

Many cooks use garnish to hide blemishes particularly if they know judges are seated when they examine the box. A seated judge looks at the box from an oblique angle rather than perpendicular. Consequently, I always stand and bend over to better view the meat (especially brisket and chicken) from all perspectives.

Doug KCBS Master CBJ / CTC

7/26/2012 02:38:54 am

The only time I have heard garnish brought up or I have brought up garnish is when it obscures the meat. This happens only once or twice a year. So it is a very rare occurrence.

Tim link

7/26/2012 02:51:13 am

onlt if there is an unusual or illegal garnish.

Dick-CBJ

7/26/2012 03:25:42 am

I have not heard much conversation reguarding the garnish after the box scores have been turned in, however remember that there usually is not a lot of time between entries and the conversation usually centers around the taste or tenderness. Do I believe that some judges do improperly consider their appearence score with the garnish in mind? Yes I do. If this would ever be mention at the judges table I would be one of the first to remind the judge that they are only to look for improper garnish. I believe the garnish only frames and enhances the meat similiar to the garnish a restaurant adds to a plate, but as we would in the restaurant, we then must look past the garnish and judge rhe meat. I score the meat appearence base how how appetizing it appears. If its a "boy I don't want to miss out on those ribs" (or whatever) then it gets a score of nine and we go down from there.

rich,mcbj

7/26/2012 04:13:53 am

the meat should judged on its own, but if you put the same meat in a very well done box with great garnish it will score higher than a box poorly garnish.

Keith - KCBS CBJ

7/26/2012 04:32:36 am

Yes. But not a whole lot of it and not really in a context of it affecting scores one way or the other -- mostly just cussing how all of that parsley can be difficult sometimes to get off of over-sauced meat.

Bill F.

7/26/2012 04:56:44 am

Garnish doesn't get much discussion. I avoid the subject altogether. I'm only interested in the meat.

Joe Q CBJ

7/26/2012 07:09:03 am

BJ,
I do hear table comments sometimes of a putting green. My fact is: you do notice the garnish or lack of. You are not to judge up or down due to garnish or lack of, most boxes I see have garnish. I do not judge down either way but I do tire of picking parsley from sticky chicken.

Jim H - CBJ-SBN/KCBS

7/26/2012 07:40:02 am

In SBN, there is no garnish in the box and I hear KCBS judges sometimes reflect on the stark difference between having it and not having it. They get used to judging the meat against a green backdrop that not having it is a significant difference. However, I've not heard any express a preference one way or the other.

Keith

7/26/2012 11:35:29 am

The only time I mention it is when so much sticks to the meat it takes minutes to pick it off. No parsley please, just lettuce.

Pat (Santa) Austin CBJ-CTC/KCBS,MBM,MIM

7/26/2012 12:22:37 pm

The only time I have heard other judges talking about the garnish is to discuss whether the garnish was legal or not. Otherwise, the only comments I have heard have been about how irritating it is to have to spend time picking small pieces of parsley off a piece of chicken before you can judge it.

Wayne Brown link

7/26/2012 12:28:00 pm

I have not heard of any garnish talk in any of the competitions I have judged. Usually any comments on the greens are when it's a distraction from the presentation.

Dennis

7/26/2012 02:05:28 pm

IMO...garnish is like smoke and mirrors and takes away from what's most important...the meat. Not a fan....

Randy - MCBJ

7/26/2012 04:02:16 pm

I have judged over 70 contest and heard garnish talked about one time at the judges table and this judge made the statement - garnish deserves a little extra for appearance, I cringed inside when he said it - because of his and I believe other judges secretly feel the same way - when I see a box without any garnish, I will give them a little better score, because I feel certain there is at least one judge at the table marking it down due to lack of garnish, so I try to balance the table and also some admiration for a team willing to turn in without garnish. Second - and this is just personal on my part, parsley drives me nuts, sticks to every thing but I do not mark it down because of the parsley

Mike Robison

7/29/2012 07:27:43 am

I only take off if the garnish obscures the meat and I cannot see it.
Having said that, I HATE entries where they load up on the parsley, which sticks to everything. Al little parsley goes a long way, IMHO, and some cooks overdo it big time. I had one entry where they had diced the parsley and it was like having green confetti all over the meat. In that case, I could taste the parsley at the same time I was trying to judge the meat. I don't take off for lots of green stuff, unless I can't see the meat.

Vince V. - CBJ/KCBS - Southern CA

8/15/2012 05:23:06 am

We have some pretty good KCBS Rep's in our region (SoCal - K&K Macintosh). Mrs. Macintosh is consistent in reminding all judges that contests are about meat, not about garnish. Her emphasis is always on legality of the garnish, and that should be the only case where appearance score is affected. That said, a sloppy box is a sloppy box, and while the garnish may be involved in that subjective assessment, its existence/non-existence does not directly affect any appearance score that I give.

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Do BBQ judges talk about garnish?

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