How do you score a box filled with different cuts of meat?

7/16/2014

QUESTION

I am wondering how judges score a box with two different cuts of meats in the same box. Chicken Thighs and Breast in the same box. Pulled Pork and Money Muscle, Brisket Flats and Burnt ends. For example, if I put both thighs and chicken breast in one box. How do you score it if one is excellent and the other isn't? Do you use the lower score, average, etc? Thanks

Joe Loth
Linn Creek, MO

George

7/15/2014 11:06:32 pm

The inclusion of more than one cut of meat is common in pork and brisket but less common with chicken. We often get three different cuts of pork: sliced, chunked, and pulled. If it is in the box, it must be scored. When judging I take and taste a portion of each of the different cuts. I then sort of mentally average the scores for all the cuts for taste and tenderness. Using chicken as an example, Suppose the thigh is well-cooked, tender and juicy and would have normally rated a 9 but the while meat is dry and would by itself have rated a 7, I will give the combination an 8. In this case the team would have been better advised to have left the breast slices out. Where I see this problem most often is in brisket. Many teams don't seem to know what real burnt ends are and appear to be submitting chunks of the flat along with their slices rather than true burnt ends because they believe that submitting only slices will hurt them. What they don't understand that burnt ends that aren't good hurts rather than helps them. Bottom line - if it isn't good, don't put it in the box.

Bill

7/16/2014 12:19:32 am

I agree totally with George. If it is not your best, don't put it in the box - it will only hurt your score. I try judge the box as it is presented, whether one cut or five, I want judge that cook the same

Doyle

7/16/2014 12:57:37 am

I agree with George, he was spot on....nothing else needs to be added.

Sandi link

7/19/2014 03:48:38 am

I agree. If one cut out shines the other only submit the good one. The so-so cut will bring your score down. If you can't decide which is better submit both.

Ike, KCBS CBJ

7/15/2014 11:56:38 pm

I personally like to see presentations with different cuts in the box. To me it shows the cook(s) are proud of their abilities. However, every cut that is presented is judged on it's own merits and this can cause you to either improve or deduct from your score.

Brenda VanderZanden

7/16/2014 12:16:12 am

I agree with George - spot on!

MIke Cannon

7/16/2014 01:32:12 am

I think multiple cuts have to be judged as a whole, since there is only one set of scores. It should not be the judge's decision. The team decided that all was to be judged when they sent it in. In some categories, Whole Hog in a MBN event, for example, the team must send loin, shoulder and ham and they are judged as a whole sample.

Jim H - CBJ SBN/KCBS

7/16/2014 01:37:34 am

George is spot on! In SBN, we often judge whole hog, which includes the shoulder, loin and ham. Each of these are of different textures and cook at different rates, and thus are usually presented differently. To be able to get each of them prepared well is the best measure of a cook's skill, and is the biggest challenge for a judge.

Larry MCBJ

7/16/2014 06:28:38 am

Averaging may work sometimes however, say the box has a wing , thigh, and breast. Breast in dry as the desert,.. thigh and wing are great or two were great and one was undercooked. Averaging sometimes doesn't work. Some will think I'm a bad judge because I judge the poorest sample (from the box) on my plate. Kinda like a box containing 6 ribs from different slabs. Some will be better than others and each judges score will reflect that.

Moonpie

7/16/2014 06:33:54 am

I agree with George.... however I would add, if one of the cuts is say a 6 or even a 5, I score down to the lowest rather than average them because if something in the box really deserves a 5 then the BOX was a 5. And anytime I have a box that has different cuts and one is better than the other, I make out a comment card so the cook knows why they didn't get a 9 AND that they really could have gotten the 9.

Vern - MCBJ/KCBS

7/16/2014 07:46:57 am

One should try and average. After all, a judge is judging the whole box. Yes, I struggle at times trying to go one way or another but try to do my best. Only put your best in the box! An excellent box of burnt ends alone or tasty pulled whatever can win the category...

Raine® KCBS CBJ CTC Cooking Team link

7/16/2014 09:06:05 am

If one cut is not good, it can lower your score. If it is not your best, don't put it in the box.

We had a rep tell us that when you place different cuts of meat in one box, you are really competing against yourself.

However, too many judges score down if the money muscle isn't in the box, or burnt ends aren't in the box. Seems they have forgotten about judging the entry based on how the team presented it, instead on what the judge thinks should be in the box based on the judges likes.

william holladay ( scba )

7/16/2014 02:21:14 pm

When judges are presented a box with different cuts , usually pork or brisket, there is usually enough meat in the box for all the judges to get a sample of each cut of meat and judge the sample as a whole. Ribs and chicken are different in that they are, most of the time, presented in single cuts to be judged. What can you do with a rib bone except present at least 6 samples for all the judges. chicken is different, breast, thigh, wing, drumstick. You could not possibly get 6 samples of each in a box for that box to be judged fairly by all the judges. Judges scores are based on total box appearance and the sample they pulled from that box for taste and tenderness. Judging based on a preconceived notion of what a box should look and taste and feel like is ridiculous.

cogeo

7/18/2014 04:44:11 am

Good conversation! When I judge this is typically one of the topics that we mull over with our table. As a judge, you score what is presented to you; not on what you would like to see, but what is presented. For the most part, a full box of meat scores better. When tasting, I tend to average the scores. I understand the comments about using the lowest score as that reflects the BOXes score. KCBS does not have a rule (yet) that details this scenario (hence our frequent table discussions), so, the details the cooks need to take from this conversation is......
1. full boxes tend to score better
2. do not put something in the box less than your best

Raine® KCBS CBJ CTC Cooking Team link

8/4/2014 01:24:05 pm

" you score what is presented to you; not on what you would like to see, but what is presented" Exactly, yet a number of judges score down if there isn't a MM in the box.

Are MMs being served that way in restaurants now?

Tom - CMJ/KCBS;CBJ/MBN,NCPC,NCBS,NCBBQA & comp cook

7/21/2014 05:16:17 am

I've spoken with several REPs about this specific issue and MOST of them state definitively that "averaging" is NOT what KCBS wants the judge to do. They state that the judge is to sample each "type" of meat in a box and then "come up with the number that corresponds with the descriptive term next to the number on the scorecard". They leave it up to the judge on how they arrive at that number, but avoid the word "average" or "averaging" when it comes to figuring out the final score of the different types of meat in the box.

Herb (BBQ Critic)

7/22/2014 04:33:57 pm

There is no KCBS policy (that I am aware of) on how to judge a multi-meat box. So I am not quite sure why averaging would be discouraged. At this point, we leave it up to the judge on how they want to handle it. Does KCBS have anything in writing about this topic?

Kevin - KCBS CBJ

7/22/2014 04:55:42 pm

OK, I don't average, I'll give it a score that reflects the rich tapestry of all the cuts of meat presented to me.

Here's another one, say you have a chicken thigh and you bite both sides (which I've done before) and one side is moist, tender, and has that delicious chicken taste. The 2nd bite tastes like the south end of a north bound chicken. Do you "average" that, or do you give it the lower score? It's kind of the same thing if you think about it...

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