Should garnish be considered in your KCBS appearance score?

5/19/2013

QUESTION

I keep getting different opinions on how garnish is to be considered in KCBS scoring. Some say they include it somewhat, some say it has no place in scoring. What do all you judges say?

Ed Hartman
Montezuma IA

Tom - CBJ w/KCBS, MBN, NCPC & comp cook

5/19/2013 12:57:47 am

NO!

Tom - CBJ w/KCBS, MBN, NCPC & comp cook

5/21/2013 02:21:16 am

WOW! It amazes me as I look at all the responses by CBJs on this issue. Anything from how the garnish helps or detracts from the appearance of the meat to even one post that states that without garnish the CBJ would not give a higher score than a 7. WOW!

The OP question is: "Should garnish be considered in your KCBS appearance score?"

The one and only answer is: NO
(Illegal garnish results in a DQ by the REP and the REP ONLY - Judges cannot DQ an entry, only bring it to the attention of the TC.)

George

5/19/2013 01:03:35 am

If it's part of the box, then it should be considered. I realize that garnish is optional but in the more than 60 contests I've judged, I have yet to see a box without it and I don't know how judges would react to a box without garnish.

Having said that, in the short 5 or 10 seconds I get to look at the box during appearance scoring, I focus on the meat, rather than the garnish, although I do look enough to ensure that no illegal garnish is being used.

The less meat in the box, the more garnish comes into play. I think the best strategy for a team is to fill the box as much as possible with meat, leaving as little garnish showing as possible. I sometimes see boxes with little pieces of meat almost hidden by the garnish. In other words, too much garnish and not enough meat.

BJ Hoffman

5/19/2013 01:05:51 am

With the price of gas topping four dollars and some areas I look at the price of garnish and then look at the price of gas. I can buy almost 3 gallons of gas at today's price for the cost of garnish for my four boxes a KCBS event. The garnish looks nice but so do a lot of blondes, but I don't need or want a blonde!

Roger

5/19/2013 01:30:04 am

Being a judge with the Florida Bbq association garnish is not allowed in our events and results in DQ.We are asked to judge bbq on it's merits and I agree with you it's just an extra expense to the teams thats not needed.

Doc Kenneson

5/19/2013 01:07:33 am

NO!!!

Bob Morphew

5/19/2013 01:26:00 am

No, I think garnish should be minimal. I hate seeing a piece of 'Que with a bunch of garnish stuck to it. Garnish is for visual effect, not for a side salad. Less is best, in my humble opinion.

buzz-cbj-ctc-cook

5/19/2013 01:30:37 am

to me garnish comes in to play most when it detracts from the box rather then adding to total look of the the product

JaDE, KCBS MCBJ & TC

5/19/2013 02:02:12 am

In a KCBS Competition, it has to be considered to a degree, since we are supposed to watch for illegal garnish. Sad, messy garnish, or too much garnish, can distract from or hide the meat and spoil the overall "picture" that is being presented.
As far as no-garnish boxes, in 12 years of judging, I have only seen a few, but one in particular contained some of the most beautiful chicken I've judged, and I gave it a well-deserved 9, so I say if someone wants to try turning in an ungarnished box, go for it!

Lorne Rae

5/19/2013 02:13:25 am

No. It already is considered indirectly when one scores in that it alerts one to possible meat blemishes being hidden, unusual arrangements may reveal marking, and evidence of pooling of sauce frequently is spotted first on the garnish.

Jim Perry

5/19/2013 02:25:40 am

According to KCBS rules the answer is no. That being said if you turn in a box without garnish don't expect anything more than a seven.

Splat

5/21/2013 01:46:13 am

Seriously? This is flat wrong

Bill F

5/19/2013 02:26:06 am

No.

Dan KCBS CTC,M BJ

5/19/2013 02:26:51 am

JaDE, couldn't have said it better, totally agree.

Wayne

5/19/2013 02:43:39 am

I see both sides here, as a CBJ / TC as well as a cook. Yes it makes a very nice looking presentation. HOWEVER, my opinion falls more on the side of a Pit Master. Garishment does not do anything for the meat. I personally want the meats judged and not the presentation.

Mike - Certified KCBS & UTBBQO Judge, Comp Cook

5/19/2013 04:24:13 am

The KCBS RULE:
12) Garnish is optional. If used, it is limited to chopped,
sliced, shredded or whole leaves of fresh green lettuce, curly
parsley, flat leaf parsley and/or cilantro. Kale, endive, red
tipped lettuce, lettuce cores and other vegetation are
prohibited. Improper garnish shall receive a score of one (1)
on Appearance.
----------------
This is how we train our UTBBQO Judges:
Judging should be done on the meat. Garnish is nice but it is optional. If you are going to add it to your box, make sure it is legal and looks nice and does not hide the meat. A BBQ judge should not be marking your score down to a 7 for what is "not in the box".
In fact, at a lot of our UTBBQO sponsored events we have discontinued the use of garnish and only place a square piece of foil in the bottom of the box. This does several things.
1. It helps cut the cost of the competition a little to make them more affordable in an effort to get more teams out to compete.
2. It eliminates the judges scoring based on the garnish. The judging is based only on the meat and not who can build the best salad.

So, If you cook at a KCBS sponsored event, the common practice of the teams around here is to put the garnish in.
If you cook at a UTBBQA event, We have both no garnish and garnished events (usually just before a KCBS event) to practice building a garnished box.

I would suggest talking to the teams and judges in your area and ask them what the preferred method is for the area that you are cooking in.

Pete

5/19/2013 04:32:55 am

I don't think judges specifically score for garnish but it's part of the presentation and has an influence. It lifts the meat off the bottom of the container and brings it closer to the judge's eyes and nose. That deep green background accentuates the color of the meat and makes it look even more appetizing, so at least on a subliminal level, it impacts the score.

Larry MCBJ

5/19/2013 04:49:58 am

If the garnish impedes my view of the meat then it's scored accordingly. After all, it's a meat contest first and foremost.

Tina C CBJ KCBS,

5/19/2013 06:08:46 am

As a judge I look at meat and consider garnish as a frame to showcase the meat. If it distracts or coveres the meat it can a d will affect the appearance score. As a team coo, I hate that I have to worry about it at all, after all is a meat contest!

Scott KCBS CBJ

5/19/2013 07:17:14 am

I'm with Dan, JaDE said it well.

Additionally, on April 10, the KCBS BoD approved a motion from Don Harwell to put out an advisory on this subject. From the quick minutes on the KCBS site (http://www.kcbs.us/news.php?id=635):

The CBJ committee discussed the importance of all instructors teaching the same principle within each class. Discussion centered around the rule “Garnish is optional”. The CBJ instructors are teaching that “Garnish is optional and if used it is not to be judged. Judges are to look for illegal garnish only”. The CBJ committee has asked that the rules committee look at rule # 12 and consider adding language to better define this teaching. The CBJ committee (I) motion that the REP Chair put an advisory out to the Reps to state in their Judges’ meetings at contests that “Garnish is optional and if used it is not to be judged as part of the appearance score. Judges are to look for illegal garnish only”.

Bill C. KCBS MCBJ/CTC

5/19/2013 07:45:57 am

NO! Garnish does not count in the appearance score. It's a meat contest. With that being said, eye appeal make buy appeal. No one has to use garnish but what kind of score would the meat receive if is all mixed around in the box because there was nothing to hold the meat in place? Your call cooks.

Dick-MCBJ/CTC

5/19/2013 08:01:15 am

Ed, When used properly I believe that garnish adds to the appearance of the meat. The frame of color highlights the meat. The garnish lifts the meat and covers any juices, sauce, ect in the bottom of the box. This topic will be discussed as long as garnish is allowed and even though judges are taught not to score based on the garnish I truly believe that the contrast in boxes with garnish do score higher. The contrast in the box is similar to a high priced dinner plate where a item (ie: a sprig of parsley or a radish slice) is added just to add color to a plate even though many times it is not eaten. With all of this being said it is important that the garnish does not hide any of the meat. I think many top teams have realized that they may lose the meat in the garnish and use a base of cross cut lettuce to add support and lift the meat out of the garnish. I would also caution against multi colored garnish that distracts a judge from first seeing the meat. I know that with all of these concerns many teams would prefer the all garnish is eliminated, but would be like restaurants asking that all garnish be forbidden so that the ones who do not use it would not lose out to the ones who garnish their plates and salads.

Frank KCBS MCBJ CTC

5/19/2013 09:48:03 am

I believe KCBS rules for judging appearance are very clear. Scott above provided the most recent clarity on the garnish rule. The original question was not about preference (garnish vs no garnish). Under KCBS rules garnish is clearly not to be considered in your appearance scores (except in the event of a DQ for illegal garnish). Unfortunately, as you can see above, some judges are allowing legal garnish to impact their scores.

Jim KCBS CBJ

5/19/2013 11:09:57 am

Absolutely not. Even though garnish is not required per KCBS rules, a box without it would look sparse no matter how much meat is in it. This would affect the appearance just by being different, even though it shouldn't. As Frank said above, only a DQ for illegal garnish should affect the appearance score.

Jim H - CBJ SBN/KCBS

5/19/2013 01:41:49 pm

NO! My comments are just reiteration of others! In a site judging system, the garnish could be considered part of the presentation as the site itself, However, BBQ judging is about meat, and garnish is merely a distraction.

Vincent V. CBJ KCBS

5/19/2013 04:23:04 pm

Thank you JaDE and Scott. Every KCBS judge who follows this site should take heed of the KCBS official advisory, and judge their KCBS events in accordance with that ruling. Once the legality is determined, the garnish should not factor into the appearance score.

Bill kcbs cbj

5/20/2013 12:49:51 am

I think garnish has its place. Mainly to hide slight imperfections in the display - so it can make the presentation look better at times. With that being said, the only consideration I give to the garnish is whether it is legal or not

Jim S. CBJ KCBS NBS

5/20/2013 04:13:02 am

I agree with the statement tha Appearance is for MEAT ONLY. However I agree whole heartedly with Dick-MCBJ/CTC, garnish is a powerful tool in enhancing the appearance. The color of Brisket, when layed upon a nice "pool table" green carpet of parsley can make the meat more eye appealing. Where Pale Chicken sitting on leafs of yellowish iceberg, does not look appetizing. Look through the archive photos on this site to see how the garnish can affect the presentation. I would also keep in mind that a nicely presented box, meat and garnish, is a Pitmaster who is proud of his / her entry.

Keith CBJ/CTC

5/20/2013 04:52:35 am

The rules, for a change, are pretty straightforward on this topic. It is to be considered for scoring only in circumstances where it is illegal.

Don

5/20/2013 02:49:22 pm

KCBS and other sponsoring barbeque associations have rules that require a judge to look for garnish that is prohibited to use in a box as part of the display. Garnish can make the presentation more appealing but a judge should be looking a the meat product for such things as dryness, clean cuts, over saucing, uniformity, etc. The garnish should not play a major role in appearance other than ensuring that no prohibited garnish is used. The meat product should be the star, not the garnish.

Mike S.; KCBS MCBJ &,BBQ-Brethren RJ

5/21/2013 01:20:10 am

I try not to consider the garnish, and focus on the meat. The only time garnish will influence my score is, if the garnish is illegal, or if it hides the meat.

In the 45 KCBS contests I have judged, I've only came across one box that didn't have garnish, and I gave the meat an 8 for appearance. I can't recall what the rest of the table scored it, but the brisket looked great and it was arranged very well in the box.

Tom - CBJ w/ KCBS & etc.

5/21/2013 02:07:06 am

Quick question Mike - if "the brisket looked great and it was arranged very well in the box", then why an 8 instead of a 9?
Great gets a 9 on my card every time as it is higher than "very good" (8).

Mike H. Master CBJ & backyard hack

5/24/2013 04:24:08 am

As you make your bed, so you must lie in it.

Live within the Rules, Baby!

A KCBS CBJ is NOT authorized to take into account the presence or absence of garnish, period. If you think the garnish is illegal, shut your mouth, score the box as if it were legal, wait till ALL judges at your table have scored it, THEN ask the TC to summon the Rep. A KCBS CBJ is NOT authorized to score for something NOT in the box whether it's garnish or burnt ends. Score it how the cook presented it.

IF you truly believe that the garnish is BLOCKING YOUR VIEW of the meat, I think you could take off for that, BECAUSE it's a meat contest and something is blocking you from seeing THE MEAT.

I will say this... I believe there are remedies for this garnish "situation."

1. KCBS could rule garnish illegal.
2. Test & then Manufacture a plastic, reusable green garnish mat/pad or a paper recycle-able green garnish mat/pad that is agreeable to all cooks.
3. Adjust the RULES to read, “Garnish is optional and if used it is not to be judged as part of the appearance score. Judges are to look for illegal garnish only”.

Like it clearly reads in the KCBS rules; JUDGING PROCEDURES rule #3, and I think that we should start thinking like this: "Each judge WILL first score all samples for appearance of the MEAT," Not, "OVERALL appearance of the BOX."

It's appearance of the MEAT & DISQUALIFIERS you're looking for.

One might ask, "What if I've got two boxes that both have excellent looking chicken, but one of them has crappy wilted lettuce and the other has a real good-lookin' bed of perfect parsley? Doesn't this one look better than that one?

Stop it already! We DO NOT COMPARE one sample to the other in KCBS, they both get a 9.

But that's unfair.....

Bullshiz! The KCBS rules are clear. Garnish is optional, you don't like the rules, run for KCBS office and get the rule changed!!! Until then, make your bed (of parsley!) and lie in it!

But the judges....

Dude, really? Judges are human. When KCBS adjusts the rule, which I believe they should, and will, it'll take it out of the hands of the judges,. Until then, deal with it- decide to garnish or not. If you use garnish, make it as pretty as you can and make those judges who "don't get it, yet" eyes dazzle and move on.

Herb's website, this forum, and this question helps us educate our fellow judges so that cooks get as level a playing field as possible.

GO BBQ & GO TEAMS!!!!

BBQ Critic

6/2/2013 07:35:44 pm

The KCBS garnish rule has been a questionable practice for some time now. Some judges were instructed that garnish while not judged has a role in deciding the presentation score, (beautiful gold picture frame VS Kmart picture frame, etc.) others were instructed that garnish does not come into play whatsoever (it's a meat contest).

KCBS has decided to reaffirm the rule as originally put in place by the group that built the judge certification program and it is this: Garnish is optional, if used, once garnish is deemed to be legal it no longer should have any consideration in the presentation scoring.

What that means is if the cook uses garnish in their box, once you have determined it is legal you must ignore it in deciding your score for presentation. You must train your self that it makes no difference whether it is a perfect putting green parsley bed or a handful of chopped iceberg lettuce it has no value in the presentation score. With a little practice it really isn't that hard. Judging in this manner here on BBQ Critic will help set the practice in your real judging routine.

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