What should the left-over policy be for judges at BBQ contests?

6/18/2013

QUESTION

To all cooks,judges, and contest organizers: WE NEED YOUR IMPUT !!!

There has been a great deal of controversy over the "leftover policy" established at some contests. We would appreciate it if the organizers, cooks, and judges would share their thinking on the leftover policy at the contests they organize, cook and judge.

Many contest organizers allow leftovers to be taken by the judges and support staff. Some will not allow the leftovers to be taken by judges, but still allow it to be served to employees and support staff, which suggests a double standard.

As judges who were raised by our parents not to waste food, it troubles us to see huge amounts of food tossed into a trash barrel. We also feel that this is an insult to the cooks who have spent large amounts of money and many hours selecting and preparing expensive meat in the very best way they know how.

Arguments can be made both for and against this policy, but we do not feel sound reasoning can be made to justify wasting food. If we, as adult consumers, are allowed to take our leftovers home from a restaurant, then why not from a BBQ contest?

Some of the reasons we have heard for not allowing take home are listed below with our responses:

Reason #1: It has been suggested that the take home food many not be properly handled and could become dangerous to consume. Our response: If a person is capable of being responsible for their restaurant take home, isn’t it reasonable to assume that the contest food is due the same intelligent handling by the person accepting the food? If the objection to take home is of a legal nature, then those choosing to take their leftovers should sign a waiver of liability, thus holding the contest and cooks harmless. (In our humble opinion, since we live in such a litigious society, this should probably be done at all contests anyway.)

Reason #2: If the judges are allowed to take home their leftovers they may not properly sample the food, because they will want to take home as much as possible. Our response: Whoever would be of this thinking has probably never been seated as a judge. To sample six entries of chicken, six samples of ribs, six samples of pork, and six samples of brisket requires a judge to use some serious thought on how much of each entry to sample. In a typical contest, if a judge ate every bit of every sample provided to them, it is entirely possible for a judge to consume roughly 2 pounds of meat. There aren't many people who are capable of that feat without becoming physically ill from overeating.

Reason #3: The local health department will not allow food to be removed. Our response is a simple question: Does the health department allow food to be taken home from a restaurant, and if so, what is the difference?

If the organizers, cooks and judges would share their experiences and rationale, and also whether the take home policies affect their interest in contests, that insight may help alleviate issues in the future and help to promote understanding and empathy between us all. After all, we all share the same love: great BBQ!

Thank you for your time and opinions.

Richard & Debra Piper
Caledonia, IL

69 Comments

Pete - KCBS

6/18/2013 01:52:21 pm

Emphatically, yes leftovers should be allowed. Judges I've seen use common sense with their leftovers, putting them into ziplock bags immediately after judging and then into coolers. The leftovers are a small reward for the judge and I would add even a learning experience to get a second chance at a cook's flavor profile.

The only contest I've done where leftovers are not allowed are the various Sam's Club BBQ Tour events. Troy Black, the organizer, blamed the corporate lawyers. Guess they're an easy scapegoat but I'd sign a waiver if they'd allow me to take it home. Ironically it was some of the best bbq I've ever judged and to throw it into the trash is a tragic waste.

Justin Margist link

6/18/2013 11:14:28 pm

I do not believe leftovers should be allowed. If you have time to donate And judge objectively you get a free meal anyways. I agree with all of the original posts reasons.

Keith - KCBS MCBJ

6/19/2013 04:51:48 am

Funny -- he boasted at several Sam's contests I've judged that he was among the first reps in the nation to bar judges from taking home leftovers. Wonder what the real story is.

Sue Franz

6/25/2013 06:39:01 pm

KCBS CBJ x 8 years

I have judged both competitions that do allow judges to take home their leftovers and those that don't (not all of these are Sam's competitions). Regardless of which I am at, I only eat 2-4 bites of each sample in most cases. My personal system consists of a first bite for overall impact of the total effect, a second bite to strictly pay attention to tenderness and doneness, a third to strictly think about the taste. The 4th, or even 5th in a few cases, is to reconsider if I'm having trouble deciding any of those factors. (This still comes to more than a pound to pound and a half of meat per contest. Most cannot eat much more in one sitting.) This leaves a tremendous amount of food on a judge's plate that has been touched, handled and bitten into. Obviously, no one else should eat that leftover.

I believe I should be allowed to take it home as I do not believe in wasting food. It is hypocritical to constantly harp on our children and grandchildren to not take food at home if they intend to only take one bite and then throw it away yet we go week after week and do just that. I don't think I can, in good conscience. We rarely throw any food away in our home. it was the way we were raised.

I do not believe judges should be allowed to partake of the grazing table. The TCs, Reps, volunteers and other 'non-judging' help should be offered that food. Most charities will not accept such OPEN food as it is against health dept. rules in most states for them to do so. (We have come up against this with regard to "leftovers" at church dinners. The shelters and soup kitchens cannot accept "open" food in our area.)

If taking our leftovers home were completely banned, we may judge at the nearest contest or two but would probably not judge at the others we normally do in an average year. The average contest is located 2-4 hours from our home for a total of 4-8 hours drive time, generally close to a full tank of gas (approx. $70 worth), a time commitment at the contest of 3 1/2 - 4 hours or more at the contest between the judge's meeting and the actual judging (a time period where we are typically corraled in a restricted area and allowed to only consume water as a beverage, seated on very uncomfortable furniture and told to stay in our seats.) Often the "thank you" is said by the KCBS rep, NOT by the competition's organizer. Lately, communications between organizers and judges has gone downhill to the point where a number of judges are feeling "taken for granted" and are dropping from various contests. The little bit of leftovers we take home is hardly "compensation". Believe me, if we were only in it for the surplus food, we'd definitely find it much more economical to either eat at a local "good" BBQ joint or simply stay home and cook our own weekly.

CBJs are all considered adults and can certainly be concerned about the safety of their own left-overs. In fact, a number of judge's apps DO contain waivers to be signed these days.

Mike Cannon

6/18/2013 01:53:40 pm

The best I ever saw was where the food went to charity AND the local health department was there to handle the leftover meat.

George

6/18/2013 10:08:36 pm

Are you saying that the local charity will accept food that has had one or two bites by a judge? I doubt that.

Bill C. KCBS MCBJ/CTC

6/20/2013 10:14:23 am

The extra food taken to the volunteer table is for the volunteers and/or charity depending on the wishes of the organizer. Either choice is great.

jim v mcbj

6/18/2013 02:07:50 pm

Taking home samples is a small reward for judges who spend time and expense to serve the contestants. It is also a good way to share the experience with family and friends. Throwing away food is outrageous a d if signing a waiver would satisfy the legal community then so be it. Bringing home samples to share is a perk that I would not be interested in giving up. take it away and I may find something else to do!

Laura Jay

6/18/2013 02:12:57 pm

This one has me torn; the right to take food to-go is a small perk for the folks that volunteer their time at contests - after all, for us cook teams that turn-in box is a sunk cost, it's not like they're gonna return what wasn't eaten on site. On the flip side, we're really trusting that the folks that show up to judge our food are in it for the right reasons, and not just for the freebies. Overall, I'd rather see it go with someone that would eat it rather than see it get tossed out - judges, volunteers, food kitchens, whomever can use it.

Bob Morphew - Organizer, Parkinson's Smoke Out link

6/18/2013 02:16:50 pm

This was our first year and I allowed the judges to take what they had left over. The rest of the meat was taken to a local shelter for Battered Women & Children. This should be the standard. Take what's left on your plate, but give the rest to a shelter.

Dave Compton KCBS MCBJ

6/18/2013 03:56:13 pm

@ Bob - this sounds like the perfect solution to me. Although I don't take my leftovers home I think that it should be allowed. The other side of me wants to make sure that each judge takes a good enough bite or two so that the team gets a fair shake.

TA - MCBJ

6/18/2013 02:17:05 pm

Only once have I had a talk with a CBJ at a non-sanctioned event who was thought to be a "nibbler" taking only one bite of everything and bagging up the rest. She even bagged up things she gave a 5!

If organizers are concerned about liability, add a simple waiver to the bottom of the judge application.

Other than those two possible issues I don't see anything wrong with "take home," as I don't agree that anything that has been handled by and put in someone's mouth should be shared with charity. Any turn-in box extras should be timely consumed by the hard working volunteers of the event.

Let the judges enjoy the BBQ when not having to eat and score under time constraints.

Emily - KCBS MCBJ, CTC

6/18/2013 03:28:19 pm

I'm impressed to discover that we have a genuine psychic MCBJ, because you must be if you are able to read her mind and determine exactly how much she needs to consume in order to be a fair and impartial BBQ judge.

As for her bagging up something she gave a 5, when allowed by contest organizers, I do the same. The score I give the meat does not have any bearing on the fact that judging BBQ is incredibly wasteful, with hundreds and hundreds of pounds of meat and produce being thrown away every weekend. I personally have no interest in eating BBQ during the week when I'm judging every weekend, but luckily my dog has no such scruples. He doesn't really care if a piece of brisket is cooked to the point where it can't be torn apart even with two hands, or if the pork is so mushy it could be be served to a baby. My parents' dog doesn't mind if that rib has no smoke flavor or this chicken is dry. I personally would hope that teams would appreciate the fact that their meat is being enjoyed, even if by pets, rather than see dumpster after dumpster of it being sent to a landfill.

I am careful to only take as little meat as I need to judge each sample, as I would rather have as much of the leftover meat as possible going to feed volunteers or shelters, etc., but it really makes me sad to see all that waste and if I can save whatever is left of my samples, even ones I didn't enjoy, from the landfill and give my dog a meal, I will do so.

Tina CBJ and Cook

6/18/2013 04:12:13 pm

I sure hope your didn't take home any of my leftovers to your pooch!
I don't think it's good for pups, all of that rub, injection etc.

Dave, CBJ

6/18/2013 07:25:24 pm

Sure I'd bag up BBQ I gave a 5 to...For the purposes of the competition, it may not measure up, but that doesn't make it bad!
I don't usually get the ribs to the leftovers cooler, though..I'd finish judging, and when the table was done, I tear into the rest of the ribs!

Sue Franz

6/25/2013 06:46:19 pm

KCBS CBJ x 8 years

I have taken "5"s home. They weren't inedible, simply below par. Personally, I generally combine all of the pork or beef or chicken when eating it later. When mixed with the bits and pieces from the other samples a 5 can blend in and absorb enough flavor to grow into a 6 or better! Lately, it seems we've had quite a few samples that were rated a 6 or 7 because they simply needed a little more cooking time. Reheating my leftovers accomplished that.

Greg MCBJ/KCBS

6/18/2013 02:17:43 pm

That is about the only compensation we get for our efforts. Wasting food is a damn shame. There must be something else for idiots to be picky about.

Kevin - KCBS CBJ

6/18/2013 02:22:45 pm

I guess I've never come across the mythical judges that just nibble around the edges that they seem to be worried about. That implies that if a judge would just eat enough of the sample they'd give it a better score.

Hey, leftovers are a nice perk. I bring ice to cool them down and make sure they stay cold on the ride home. If for some reason I were to get sick a couple days later eating them I'd probably figure it's my own fault.

Dan KCBS CTC,MCBJ

6/18/2013 02:31:49 pm

Use common sense,people. If you haven't the proper container/coolant to take your "reward" home then don't. When I started judging way back when, the judges were given the same containers as the cooks. I saw the problem with that right away. To safely take those tasty bits home, you need to cool them asap.
I use frozen gel packs commonly used for cross county shipping. They last a long time in a cooler and are re-usable week after week. Get it cold asap, then enjoy later.

JaDE, KCBS MCBJ & CTC

6/18/2013 02:44:18 pm

In general, I think judges should be allowed to take what is left on their plates, as long as they have actually sampled enough to score fairly. It is bothersome though, to see those baggies whipping out while half the table is still judging!
I personally never take my leftovers now that I live in a hot climate, but when I lived in Colorado, I almost always did. It does seem wasteful to see all that meat that the competitors worked so hard on just tossed into a trash can, and even below-average competition Q can be doctored up or used as an ingredient to make a nice meal!

Bill C. KCBS MCBJ/CTC

6/20/2013 10:20:17 am

Food should be left on the plates until every judge has turned in their scorecard. It's not a formal rule, but it's just plain courtesy.

Sue Franz

6/25/2013 06:50:48 pm

This season, our reps. have specifically asked us not to empty our plates until all cards from our table have been turned in and reviewed not just by the TC but also by a rep. If there is an inconsistency, it can be tackled right away. After the TC turns the cards in, they come back and OK emptying of the plates.

6/18/2013 02:46:50 pm

As a husband and father of two - bringing home amazing left overs with a couple of bites out of it is one of the main reasons I'm "allowed" to be a BBQ judge. Just tonight we finished the left overs from the Rock'n'Ribest in Merrimack, NH. Judging is almost always a full day event when you include travel. If I couldn't bring home leftovers, I would probably cut my yearly judging count in half, easily.

6/18/2013 02:52:04 pm

One other thing: Do NOT put your take home into bags until the entire table has judged. If that last slow judge sees you put everything into a bag except the last entry - it will effect how they judge it. Be polite, and wait until everyone has turned in the card.

Mary

6/19/2013 01:11:45 am

While I agree with waiting til the table has completed judging before bagging you leftovers, I can't imagine a judge so insecure in his conclusions that he'd wait to see what someone else at the table did with their leftovers before he recorded his score.

Frank KCBS MCBJ CTC

6/18/2013 03:11:08 pm

Well said Richard & Debra. The greatest controversies I have seen revolved around judges pulling out of a contest because of the "no take-home" policy. That is not appropriate, especially when charities are involved. That has been a rare occurance in my experience. All the judges I have seen have been very responsible in food handling. I have never encountered a "nibbler". Few (if any) judge for the "freebies". Not much value there anyway (less than $10?). I judge because I enjoy the people and learning more about BBQ.

David Dornhoffer

6/18/2013 03:12:54 pm

I judge and I also am a co-organizer of a local KCBS event so I see the issue from both sides. On one hand, some judges drive 2-3 hours - even more - to judge an event. Taking food home is in a way small recompense for their time and cost to get there. On the other hand, I think it a SIN for a judge to give a sample a 5 or a 6 or worse, then package it up to take home and eat. The issue of porrly handled food to me is moot - people are not that stupid.

Paul H (KCBS CBJ / Cook)

6/18/2013 03:18:32 pm

Everyone's covered it pretty well above. Leftovers are a perk / reward / renumeration. Gasoline to get to contests at $3.50+/gallon, 3-5 hours of weekend time that could have been spent mowing the lawn, fixing the faucet, watching the kids grow, etc. is also donated by judges, table captains, and volunteers.

It would feel like a double-standard if contest volunteers were allowed leftovers while judges were not. I've yet to see a refrigerator where the volunteers would be able to safely store their leftovers either.

We are all adults. We've all taken home leftovers from BBQ restaurants (and not even in coolers!) and stopped by a friends house or the bar or whatnot and survived.

It is important to consider "permission to judge" that some of us get from our spouses -- the leftovers are another reward and treat for the family members that can't come along.

As for how I would feel about a contest where they dictate the leftover policy, there is more to it than just my & my family's stomachs. For example, as previously mentioned, the Sam's Club tour does not allow leftovers. Since it is a big name contest, that's cool bragging rights that I was able to judge there. With a big corporate sponsor, liability is a concern for their lawyers as well.

If you are running a small contest, it makes sense to allow leftovers. As others mentioned -- a waiver would be perfectly acceptable, perhaps recommended, with most all of us judges.

I guess in other words, leftovers are good, especially the good leftovers from the contest.

Paul H (KCBS CBJ / Cook)

6/18/2013 03:50:03 pm

One more note regarding the "why the heck would you score it a 5 or 6 and still take it home??" questions. Please read the KCBS score sheet again (the scoring is also contained within the official KCBS rules: http://www.kcbs.us/pdf/2013_rules.pdf). 2nd Page under Judging Procedures -- sections 4 and 5:

6 = average.
5 = below average.
4 = poor
3 = bad
2 = inedible

I have never given a 4 or below to a sample I've had to judge. I hope I never need to. But it could happen this weekend. However, there have been times when I've eaten at BBQ joints and thought of my KCBS judging criteria and would feel happy granting a 4 or 3 to what was served. But I still take those leftovers home.

Amazing what the crappiest brisket / ribs / etc can do when slow simmered with some beans in the crock pot. Ever take pulled pork and mix it with ground beef into a true BBQ burger?

Have you ever BBQ'ed your own stuff and burnt it or over salted it or etc.? Throw it out immediately!

Also note that a 1 can be awarded with approval if there is "unapproved garnish, pooled sauce or less than 6 samples of meat". If I'm the shorted judge because 2 ribs stuck together and gave them a 1 -- that should apparently mean I should refuse to touch it, smell it, look at it, let alone take it home? Really?

Some judges are honest and score accurately. Yes, I've also cooked. I've come in DAL once or twice. I've gotten 5's and 6's. I can taste, but not duplicate those greats, I suppose. But I've taken my leftovers home from those contests as well and made it work. I invested my hundreds of dollars to enter. I wouldn't take it personally if someone didn't take my entry home. If it really sucked, I don't blame ya. It's all good.... it's BBQ!

Bill C. KCBS MCBJ/CTC

6/20/2013 10:25:47 am

While I agree with your comments about taking food home I have an issue with the first sentence in your last paragraph. The vast majority of judges score honestly and accurately.

Jim H - CBJ SBN/KCBS

6/18/2013 04:02:29 pm

This is indeed a hard question. Within the SBN, a sanctioning organization, our biggest problem with the "grazing table" is gluttony! I hate to throw food away, but our position is that the extra meat is for the support staff who don't judge. Also, there is a benefit for the judges to be able to sample those entries that weren't at their table. However, too may judges want to leave their table and fill bags with the remaining BBQ as quickly as possible. SBN's position is this: as sample boxes are place on the "grazing table," support staff are able to sample as desired but not fill "to go" bags; when all the judging is complete, the table is open for sampling. Once "sampling" is complete, those that want to "bag up" BBQ may do so. We do our best but it's on the individuals to not be greedy.

George

6/18/2013 10:14:10 pm

Even though I like to take my own samples home when I am judging, I agree with the KCBS rules that the extra food put on the grazing tables is not for judges. The support staff merits rewards as much as we do as judges.

Tina CBJ and Cook

6/18/2013 04:06:21 pm

As a cook I don't care, but as a judge I think the city and county rules have to be considered. If it is allowed; great but Please use some common since as well as courtesy. Judges please wait till the entire table has completed there score card before getting out your bags and coolers. This way no other judging score can be affected. As a retired chef I do know safe food handling standards but I do see judges as well as cooks not following them. Perhaps part of the judges and cooks meeting could touch on safe handling, temps etc.

Don

6/18/2013 04:11:26 pm

BBQ Judges volunteer their time, effort and expenses for travel and lodging to serve the BBQ community. Allowing the judges the ability to take home left-overs is a small reward for the judges contribution. Keep in mind that you are talking about a meat product that has already, in most cases been handled, chewed or bitten by the judge and can only be thrown away.

As a judge, my reward is doing the best possible job I can for the cooks, i.e., to give fair and honest feedback on the product they have presented. The left-overs are a small reward for my effort. I never know how much product I will be taking with me because I never know how much product I will need to sample to give the fair and honest feedback I strive to provided. I do not judge for payment in left-overs but I do look forward to consuming it later when I can really relax and enjoy the efforts of the cooks.

Tina CBJ and Cook

6/18/2013 04:15:59 pm

Thanks Don for being a good judge

Sue Franz

6/25/2013 06:54:35 pm

Well said, Don.

Jeff

6/18/2013 04:13:21 pm

I'm sure I'm the minority, but I don't get the desire to take home left overs. Maybe it is because I cook BBQ at home an average of 3 weekends a month and I cook backyard contest and want to do sanctioned events in the near future.

I will be driving 2 hours soon for my first contest and for me I don't need a perk to do so. For me, it is for the love of BBQ and don't plan taking a cooler

Dan KCBS CBJ soon 2 b MCBJ, CTC, BBQ CHEF, BBQ Rest.Owner

6/18/2013 05:52:56 pm

Giving to charity is the bomb, HOWEVER, the charity Must be there to pick up the leftovers as they come in and place them in a cooler of proper temp. On the other hand, Judges are big boys and girls and can sign a waiver to release the Event and the cooks from liability. I table captain regularly and I enjoy getting a box of overflow that I can share with family and friends since I know how to protect it from spoilage.You have 2 hours to chill the food from 140+ to 40 degrees. Since 99.9% of this food has been handled properly and since your body is one of the most effecient killing tools on earth, Let judges, table captains, and support staff take it home, if there are leftovers from there designate some to be given to a charity that will be there to get it when it comes in.

buzz-ctc-cbj & cook

6/19/2013 12:02:54 am

As others have said let the judges take samples home if properly judged and cared for---and on the subject of the food waste the KCBS should include in the organisers guidelines the idea of recycling all the 'food' waste from the judging area-there may be a hog or chicken farmer would like the leftovers as feed it seems to me

Mike H. - KCBS MCBJ & Backyard Hack

6/19/2013 01:29:41 am

Most of the time I'll sample larger amounts than the average judge, so I'll have less to take home. I love BBQ, and I'm gonna give all of the samples a good healthy tasting! IF there's any left, I'll take some pork and brisket home because my wife, Margaret, really likes those categories.

I generally bring a small cooler, a couple of "Ziploc" bags, and frozen blue ice packs.. I may also stop at a convenience store and purchase some ice, if my travel home is delayed. I'm a big boy and can take care of myself!

I could care less if I'm "authorized" to take BBQ home. If not, I'll stop at a restaurant and buy some brisket to take home. I'm not the kind of guy who let's a tight-assed bureaucrat ruin my day with what I think is a silly decision- not my problem, don't care.

Leftovers should go to the volunteers, table captains, and then, charity. Frankly, I think it should be a KCBS contest RULE that organizer's have a "LEFTOVER PLAN" where he or she would arrange for the leftovers to go to a charity or something constructive... shouldn't be too hard to give away properly handled competition BBQ!!!!

Yes, I'd love access to the "grazing table," but frankly, I did already get a nice bellyful. You volunteers really earned it, go ahead and enjoy.

Candy Elkins KCBS/CBJ/CTC Team Member link

6/19/2013 02:49:15 am

Guess I'll be odd person out. I don't think leftovers should be allowed.
1. Yes we are all adults, and yes some people are that stupid when it come to proper food handling( a lot of restaurant employees) don't know how to properly handle it.
2. Reward, were we promised a reward for judging? or are we to judge (to preserve excellence and truth in bbq and the American way of life) Pretty big rewards there. Yes there is an expense involved in judging, but we signed on for it when we agreed to judge.
3. Like someone else said, I would not feed it my dog as you don't know what chemicals or how much salt or etc was added to the meat. The diet of our pets have a great bearing on their health (but that's for another forum).
4. It may weed out some judges who may be judging partly for the leftovers, comments have been made here that they would judge less if not allowed to take food home.
5. Personally, if the entry is pretty good, going to eat it or most of it then. If not, it probably isn't worth taking home.

In fact we used to eat on our competition food during the week, share it with family and friends, but now we throw it all away when we get home. Can't stand to eat our own food with all the "flavor profile" we've had to put in it and on it.

Tom - CBJ w/ KCBS, MBN, NCPC, & comp cook

6/19/2013 03:02:13 am

First, I believe that there needs to be an understanding of what the OP is talking about and how the two different categories of "leftovers" are taken into consideration.
The "Judge's leftovers" - the meat left on the judge's "plate" after they have judged each entry, is one category, while the "Contest leftovers" - the meat left in the clam-shell after the judges (and Table Captain) have gotten their samples (i.e., the meat that ends up on the "grazing table") is a totally different category.
I'll address the grazing table meat first - that meat should be left for the volunteers and others who don't judge. Whatever is left over after being picked through by volunteers should be provided to a local charity or soup kitchen or whomever can actually use it for the benefit of others PROVIDED that proper care has been taken to prevent contamination (i.e., prompt refrigeration of the meat).
Judge's leftovers seem to be the contentious issue for MOST cooks and a few organizers. First consideration is whether or not the local health department allows it to be taken off site. If allowed by the HD, then the direction of the organizer is the next consideration.
In the past I was a VERY strong supporter of the judge being allowed to take home the leftovers from their judging plate, as I abhor waste of good food if it can be “finished” later. I was raised by parents who taught me to eat EVERYTHING on my plate as we didn’t have much as I was growing up. That “rule” has stuck with me. In the past I always took a cooler with me with blue-ice packs and zip-locks to every contest in anticipation of bringing home my leftovers. I even started a thread on “BBQ Brethren forum” asking this same question after being told at a contest that no leftovers were to be taken home (learned this AT the judge’s meeting – NOT before!). This year I have yet to take a cooler into the judge’s tent and have taken NO leftovers home. Not because I don’t want to, but because of the perception and mind-set of MOST of the cookers who believe that judges are only into judging in order to eat free and take their samples home without really giving them a fair shake. It is truly amazing to read the responses of cooks on this topic! Whatever reason the cooks can come up with to justify why they didn’t receive all 9s on their entries they grab at, and stating that judges are only there to nibble a little so that they can take the rest home is one of the main complaints currently being espoused. The only time I thought I was sitting next to a nibbler was this past weekend in Tryon, NC and the lady judge sitting next to me was talking about a rib that looked like it only had a VERY SMALL bite out of it. Then she turned it over and I was relieved as I saw a much larger bite out of the other side.
Personally, I don’t care if a judge takes home their leftovers or not, PROVIDED that they sample enough of the meat to render a fair judgment and score for the cook team; however, perception is reality and cooks will continue to believe that judges just want free food to take home until ALL coolers are banned at every contest.

Bill C. KCBS MCBJ/CTC

6/20/2013 10:32:11 am

I agree with your statement "PROVIDED that they sample enough of the meat to render a fair judgment and score for the cook team." I have never taken food home from a contest.

Chuck Averwater link

6/19/2013 03:11:44 am

First, judging is a privilege, not a right or entitlement.
Second, how much is enough? Judging should not be perceived as an opportunity for future meals.
Third, it's all about the teams and not about the judge's wants.
Lastly, what about the table captains, reps, organizers, and volunteers? Most contests have law enforcement officers, fire fighters, paramedics, etc. that love BBQ and only wish one judge would bring them just a sample of what they've been smelling for hours. BBQ is a great sport and is made up of sportsmen. Judges, don't put yourself first. Remember all the people that help make the contest possible. Ask them first.

Chuck Averwater
KCBS, MIM, MBN Judge
Judges Liaison MBN Board of Directors

Dick

6/19/2013 06:37:21 am

Chuck, As one of the writers of the original article I would appreciate it if you would take the time to carefully reread the article. First, we did not say or suggest that a judge is entitled to anything, but to call it a privilege and say it not about what a judge wants, its about what a team wants ,suggests to me that you do not respect and/or recognize the judges commitment. They also incur expenses and inconveniences to better the BBQ contests. Secondly, I don't believe that I know of a law enforcement officer, fire fighter, paramedic, ect. that would want to receive the left over samples from the judges plate that have been handled and partially eaten. Lastly, contrary to your thinking, I have taken, after approval, BBQ from the grazing table out to the firefighters at the American Royal. Please carefully reconsider your thoughts. No one has suggested anywhere that judges come first, but we as judges do appreciate it when our efforts are appreciated. Remember "all the people that help make a contest possible" include the judges.

Chuck Averwater

6/19/2013 07:20:14 am

Dick,

I'm sorry you took it so personally. I actually did take the time to re-read your article and it did not specify which contest, KCBS, MBN, etc., and did not specify the judges plates or the grazing table. I think everyone knows that no one is interested in eating ABC plate leftovers. Under that assumption, that leads the readers to misunderstand the original question. In KCBS, I've observed that many judges take home their unfinished meat. In MBN blind comparative judging, there is usually leftover meat in the blind boxes since there's only 4 judges at a table (in addition to 3 on-site judges. 7 total for each team). Not a requirement to eat as much either. In this case, judges are discouraged from loading up their plates to allow leftover blind box meats to go to the volunteers. However, a judge does have the ability to re-sample the blind boxes for additional comparison to complete their scorecards. As a law enforcement officer myself, I can speak for the the others. They are very greatful when anybody offers them something to eat whether its directly from a team or uneaten blind box leftovers. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and hope I've clarified myself here.

Chuck

Chuck Averwater

6/19/2013 07:20:28 am

Chuck Averwater

6/19/2013 07:21:12 am

Chuck Averwater

6/19/2013 07:21:23 am

Sue Franz

6/25/2013 07:05:25 pm

Chuck, you say "...it's all about the teams and not about the judge's wants." Without judges, there'd be little reason for the teams to cook. We've all heard Myron on Pit Masters when he complains about judges who have been sworn in that day and told a few quickie instructions. Is that who you want judging your meats? Or do you want folks who have taken a true interest in learning and knowing the ins and outs of BBQ over a number of years making a truly intelligent assessment? Is letting that experienced judge take home a bit of gnawed on chicken too high a price to pay?

Doug KCBS MCBJ & CTC

6/19/2013 03:35:57 am

I think left overs should be allowed to be taken home. Here is my reasoning. If a judge takes a 1 ounce bite of all the samples they are presented with, 4 categories, 6 teams in each, then that is 24 ounces or a pound and a half of meat. Even with a 1 ounce bite there will be a significant amount left over. I have only had one instance where I thought someone was a "nibbler" and that judge was not a CBJ. I was the table captain and when I noticed that she was not taking a large bite and trying to take more than one piece of meat from a box I contacted the Contest Rep and they dealt with that judge.

I also have had the unfortunate experience of getting food poisoning from left over BBQ taken home. I can't definitively say it was the BBQ I brought home, but I did check with other judges at my table from the contest and none of them got sick. Since that time I make sure that I have plenty of ice/ice packs to cool the food to get it out of the "danger zone" Here is the safe practice for cooling food

Potentially Hazardous Foods should be cooled within a 6-hour time frame (135°F-70°F in first 2 hours; 70°F-41°F in the next 4 hours).

As long as judges know the danger and are prepared for it, I see nothing wrong with taking food home.

I think it is unfair and giving CBJ's a bad reputation by implying that they are more interested in left overs than judging the entries fairly.

Tom, CBJ PNWBA

6/19/2013 05:02:46 am

Being a new judge I feel that judges should be able to take home their sample pieces. If there are any samples left that no one has taken a bite out of they should either be given to volunteers or kept cool to go out to others, i.e. shelters. No one else should eat a piece that has a bit taken out of it. As far as judges taking small bites so that they can take more home, honestly that thought never came into my mind. We are there to judge. Sometimes I take two bites. The amount that I take home is not even thought of. I have to say that my family likes it when I come homes with samples and that they can try some for themselves.
If samples were not allowed wold I stop judging? No. I enjoy judging.

Tony M link

6/19/2013 07:02:02 am

I'm a KCBS judge and I used to be in support of the judges keeping leftovers, however, as I gotten more experience I can see how this can be a problem. There is the issue of food safety and I have seen judges nibble the samples so that they can take it home. I have reminded people that you should take two bites to fully sample an entry. I would support a new rule prohibiting the taking of leftovers.

Mike, KCBS CBJ

6/19/2013 08:38:47 am

I have taken and I have not taken leftovers in the past. I've been a consistent 2-3 bite per sample judge since I began, and I get a belly-full of really good Q at every event. And I've cooked with teams and talked to many other teams about this issue. And I have finally come to the following conclusion: The *only* way to address the lingering uncertainty (real or not) among some of the cook teams, and the only way to restore the judge's reputations on the nibbling complaints (justified or not), is for KCBS to enact a ban on judge's taking of leftovers. Period. At least for a full season or 2 or 3, in order to assess the results. I further believe that box leftovers after turn-in should not be available to contest judges. And if cook teams wish to give away any extra cooked meat, judges should be banned from that as well, in order to avoid any appearance that judges are attempting to learn about specific flavor profiles from specific teams. The teams should only be allowed to offer that meat to the contest organizers and volunteers. The observation that throwing away meat after judging is a "waste" has little value. The notion that BBQ or other cooking contests shouldn't be so wasteful with the judged items is nonsense. BBQ contests, like auto races, are inherently wasteful activities.

My observation is that judges, even after considering our occasionally significant investments in time and travel, have the smallest total investment in time or money in the contest BBQ process, and we have the easiest jobs. We must do that job with the highest integrity, actual and perceived, or else the system we now enjoy will fail. We need teams that can afford to compete, and trust our judgements. We need contest volunteers that are happy to help us out with venues and opportunities. We need a sanctioning organization that can advertise the highest quality expertise. Our *compensation* is our ability to participate, our fair sampling and real-time consumption of the meats as presented to us. Whatever the event organizers graciously choose to offer to us in the way of small tokens of appreciation is a little splash of gravy, and we should thank them for it if offered. We are not owed more than that, and we are certainly not obligated to provide meat samples to our friends, family, pets, or even to ourselves in the following days. This opinion will certainly *rub* some the wrong way, but to those judges that feel a little rash about it, I then must ask them why they are judging in the first place. If a ban on leftovers is a deal-breaker for you, I'd suggest you step aside. KCBS probably won't mind much - they make more judges than they need today anyway because they make money at it, and it keeps the judge pipeline flowing. And I know plenty of judges that would like to have an easier shot at the already limited judging slots available. Far worse problems than the alleged "nibbling" are the reluctance of judges to use comment cards to assist the cooks, or the absurdly low scores given by new and inexperienced judges. I'd rather see KCBS put this nibbling issue to rest, and focus seriously on continuing education and refresher training for journeymen judges, but that is another opinion for another question on another day.

Tom - CBJ w/ KCBS, MBN, NCPC & comp cook

6/20/2013 01:14:20 am

GREAT response Mike!!! If all judges had the mindset that you have CBJs would have a much better reputation in the minds of cook teams!

Bill C. KCBS MCBJ/CTC

6/20/2013 10:35:29 am

AMEN!

Pete - KCBS

6/20/2013 01:31:10 pm

This is a solution in search of a problem.

buzz-cbj-cook-ctc

6/19/2013 12:48:29 pm

lots of good ideas in there----especially about KCBS and their pumping of the judges pipeline

Tony Schroeder

6/20/2013 12:38:02 am

We should definitely have the opportunity to take leftovers home especially when you judge more than the big 4 categories.

Splat FBA CMJ KCBS CTC & CBJ

6/20/2013 02:30:50 am

The FBA has a pretty good solution when it comes to “grazing table” leftovers. Once all trays are turned in, the reps and other helpers, bring the boxes to the grazing table. For the first 10 minutes (a timer is used), judges are allowed to take one sample and do as they wish with it. They are allowed to return to the grazing table after finishing the previous sample as many times as they wish in those 10 minutes. When we first tried this, there were “those” that would simply go back and forth and fill their baggies at the table. To solve this issue, we assigned a judge/volunteer to monitor the table and when the abusers were identified, they were informed by the judge/volunteer and/or rep to proper procedures regarding this 10 minutes. A lot of times, the police working the event seem to find the judging area and know the times to be available for freebies. A lot of the judges will take their “one” piece and give it to them as well.
Once the 10 minutes were over, the free for all would begin.
Now there are contests where the organizer(s) request that meat leftover after judging, would go to some entity verses the judges. The majority of folks have no issue with this arrangement.
This “10 Minute” process has solved a number of issues. First is that the newer judges actually do get to test/taste other entries and can get a better idea of what they can expect and expands there overall palette. A benefit that arose from this process was we found that new judges were discussing the samples with the more experienced ones when sampling the same entry. Second, those that simply wanted to try one of the entries and usually don’t take home leftovers, get their curiosity resolved as well usually (depend on amount of that entry they wanted to try).
Personally, we have seen a much better attitude at the grazing table. When I first started judging (90+ contests ago), my wife and I would both go to the grazing table to obtain samples to take home to improve our judging skills.
Perhaps a good addition to our process is to allow the 10 minutes of sampling and then anything left could be turned over for any other entity. I firmly believe that allowing judges to sample other entries is an important process of becoming a better judge in a shortened amount of time.

Mary Linder

6/20/2013 02:31:48 am

In my opinion, the food that judges have leftover after they've judged the meat should be allowed to be taken home. Yes, people need to store the meat properly (refrigerate) and yes, they need to take proper bites to judge correctly, but if I were not allowed to take my leftovers home I would feel very badly about wasting so much meat, since I can't possible consume every bit of meat presented to me. Who could? I was raised on a beef farm and I have respect for the animals, as well as for the people who cook, volunteer, and judge BBQ. I have seen a judge "hoarde" meat and it was reported to the rep. People need to use common sense; meat should not be wasted and people should not make a contest into their weekly grocery shopping trip!

Bobby Whitefield

6/20/2013 06:59:05 am

I would opt for leftovers to be donated to those in need. Many worthwhile community and church organizatrions depend upon the free giving of others and would welcome the opportunity to pick up, store, and distribute food items. I see no problem as long as the hosts of the competition are indemnified with their donating.

Raine®(Candy) KCBS/CBJ/CTC Cooking Team link

6/20/2013 07:23:39 am

We competed in a contest recently that did that, any team wanting to donate the food that didn't get turned in, there was a church picking it up to feed homeless etc. We thought it was great, since we can't eat our leftover food any longer.

Dick

6/20/2013 10:47:39 am

I guess when we (Deb & I )presented the question we didn't make our question quite clear. We were not referring to the table were the box , untouched, uneaten, leftover meat is taken ( some have referred to it as the "grazing table"). We were speaking of the meat leftover from the judges plate. The meat that the judge has actually handled and eaten part off to score the meat. I do not believe that any organization will accept this meat. We are in total agreement that the best use of the leftover meat from the boxes should be donated, in its entirety, to a food pantry, organization, or in any other way it can be used to feed needy people. If the judges are allowed to take home the balance from their plate it shouldn't be necessary for them to want &/or take additional meat. Therefore the "grazing table" should be restricted to table captains, volunteers, other assistants, and then given to an organization of the contests choosing. Please allow us to thank everyone who took the time to respond to our question and we hope that by reviewing all of the responses of everyone we might all come away with clearer thoughts and the proper way to make BBQ contests desirable for all. This is just one way the "CRITIC" helps make all of us better judges. THANK YOU !!!! Richard & Debra

Bill C. KCBS MCBJ/CTC

6/20/2013 10:42:16 am

If you eat 2 ounces of each of the six samples on your plate for each category you will eat 3 pounds of meat in less than a 2 hour period. That's puttin' on the hog and beef! There are great cooks, judges, organizers, reps, and volunteers out in our BBQ land and we should be celebrating the outstanding camaraderie involved with our sport. Thanks for allowing me to be a part of this group. Happy BBQ to all!

Bill Bain link

1/26/2014 02:33:51 am

I once saw an experienced judge, now a Master judge, bring a sample to a team they liked and had them taste the sample because he thought it was very good. I reported the incident to the rep and don't know what happened but he is still judging. I have seen judges give terrible scores and then gleefully pack their ice chest with those samples. I say the only samples that can be taken home are those the judge gave an 8 or 9. We'll see then how the scores change. What do you think will happen? I have gone back and forth on this but really don't care, I never take samples, but then again, I don't go to buffets for dinner and load up my plate.

Tony Schroeder

1/27/2014 12:28:26 am

judges should be given the option to take left-overs home.
I do not take samples when I give poor scores.

Tony Schroeder

1/27/2014 12:28:37 am

judges should be given the option to take left-overs home.
I do not take samples when I give poor scores.

Mary L.

1/29/2014 12:48:40 am

I will always be in favor of judges taking their excess samples home. I don't think they should be judged for taking their meats that didn't get a high score along with the prime samples either; many times you can make something else using those meats, or some treat their dog now and then. It's their business, their samples, and as long as they keep things sanitary, it's their business.
Respect the hog and the beef by eating the meat, not wasting it.

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