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Cooks & Judges - Getting to Know You

10/6/2011

6 Comments

 
There's been a lot of talk (some good, some bad) about the so-called "animosity" between cooks and judges lately.  I should know - I started some of it :>).  I really feel that there is more of a lack of communication between the two groups and that they have a lot more in common than they have in differences.  One way to help solve this would be for the two groups to get together and exchange names, ideas, maybe even phone numbers (gasp!) and get to know each other as people rather than as "cooks" or "judges". 

Here's one way that we do it in Iowa:

For the past two years a central Iowa BBQ team (Smokehouse 72) has sponsered what they call a "Frost Buster" compitition in the early spring of each year.  There's no entry fee and no prize money - just a bunch of folks who love BBQ and want to get better at it.  The thing about this comp is that the judges are encouraged to come out either Friday or early Saturday to visit with the cooks - right up until it's time to build the boxes! 
That's right - we "fratranize" with the teams!!!
We come out and talk to the cooks before, durring and after they are preping & cooking their entries.  The only thing that the judges can't see is the actual building of the turn-in box.  We can (and do) ask plenty of questions about any and every thing involved.  Most of the cooks will answer all of the questions, some will hold back a secret or two - no big deal either way.
All four KCBS meats are cooked, turned in and judged just as though this were a real comp with prize money and everything with just a couple of exceptions:  all of each teams entries will be judged at the same table and the judges can (& do) make notes on the score sheets about the entries.  Now comes the real fun part .....
We give the teams their scores verbally!  Yep, each team is called in one by one and each judge gives his scores to the team while looking the cook right dead in the eye!
"I gave you a 7 in taste because ..."  "You got a tad mushy on the pulled, that's what cost you a 9" ... et cetera.
Now, the cook can chime in any time that he wants to and ask any question that comes to mind - like "What do you mean the flavor was off - how was it "off"? ... "What can I do to make this 7 in appearance into an 8 or 9?"
See???  No more of "Why did he gave a 7?"  This gives the cooks the answer to "What the #@(&! was he thinking?"  And it also makes the judge justify his scores to the cook.  All in all, not a bad deal!
Last year we had this at an RV campground where we all got a good camping rate because Ray & Jay (Smokehouse 72) know the folks there ... also because they were invited to the chili pot luck Friday night and were given some of the left overs by the cooks :>).  In fact I do believe that they right then & there invited us back for the next year's "Frost Buster" in Colo, Iowa.  We all had a blast, cooks and judges got to know each other, each got a tad more insight into where the other guy was coming from, and we found out that we didn't have to have the "animosity" between us!

Maybe some one else out there can take this idea & run with it.  Maybe some contest organizer will talk to the cooks about sending an e-mail blast to the judges inviting them out on Friday evening or staying for the awards Saturday afternoon.  Maybe we can all work together for the betterment of our sport.
6 Comments
David Young
10/7/2011 12:56:50 am

I love this idea. I would be willing to help. I would like to meet the teams and show them why I took a point off or raised it up a point.

Reply
Ken Dennison
10/7/2011 03:15:44 am

I loved your articles about judges and cooks. I think that you are right that it may be communication. After studying some of the scores and comments on this site especially the chicken category it makes me wonder what judges want and sometimes I wonder if they have ever looked at a rule book (garnish is not one of the areas that you judge and you don't mark off for presentation because and i quote it looks like it could be cold). I wonder if they know that you also do not judge on temperature. One judge will say that it looks too perfect and doesn’t look real and the very next judge will say that there was a little smudge in the top left corner and that it could use more attention. I think as a team all we ask for is consistency. If my stuff is not spot on that day then judge me down, but be consistent. We just got back from a contest last weekend and in ribs we received mostly 9's with a couple 8's and then out of the blue one judge gave us 7's across the board. It seems to me that the table judge should ask the judge why and have them attach a note as to why they scored us so low. Also if my food was that bad get it out of your cooler. I truly appreciate the time and effort that good judges put in. I would be happy to have them in my camp any day. The judges I don't like are the ones with the know it all attitude that couldn’t cook a hotdog in a pan of water.

Reply
Herb - Master CBJ/Table Captain
10/9/2011 04:13:16 pm

I attended "Frost Buster" and it was really a great experience. I will be posting information online as soon as the next one is organized.

Nice blog, Dave!

Herb

Reply
Dick
10/13/2011 12:41:43 pm

Dave, This would be great and we would do everything we could possibilty do to attend. The only bad thing with this is all of the good judges will attend and the ones who really could benefit and need the help will not be bothered. It would be wonderful if KCBS would hold these and judges who have a record of improper scouring would be required to attend. I believe that most of us with experience have seen many examples of some very poor and unfair judging. As a prime example my wife and I cooked with a great team this summer. We did not know the cooks or had even ever met them before the day we began cooking. ON turn in day I took a judges score card and actually scored every entry on presentation, taste, and tenderness the same as I would at any contest. The cooks were not aware that I was scoring the entries until then had completed three turn-ins and were preparing the brisket box. Then I got caught, but would not allow them to see the scores until after the brisket box was turned in. I wanted to do this to see how my scores would compare to what the judges would give this team. I felt this would be extremely beneficial to myself and was the only reason I was doing it. After the brisket box was turned in and after constantly being questioned by the team I did revealed the scores to the team. I had score the brisket 9, 8, 9. The team wanted to know why the 8 and I had to tell them that I felt the meat had been over injected and had lost the taste of good brisket. Later during the awards when we received all of the judge scores all of the judges had scored the brisket with all 8's & 9's. EXCEPT ONE JUDGE WHO GAVE THE TEAM ALL 7's. This cooking team lost grand champion by five tenths of a point. I was very upset by this judging and I did take it personally. Not only was this poor judging, but also an insult to five good judges and also to me. This is the type of judging that we all have to try to weed out or reeducate. I hope that the table captains and reps at a contest might speak to judges who are way out of line with other judges at a table. I know we will always have differences, but I do think that if we want to make KCBS the best it can be we must strive to find answers. I think the "Frost Buster" just might be a good start as we look for the answers. Please Keep us posted and THANKS, Dick

Reply
Ray ( Frostbuster Coordinator)
1/6/2012 05:03:51 am

Hey Dave, I just came back to read this again and should have commented on this at the time but didn't...my bad. Great article and thanks for the kind words about our contest.
I've been working on some details for this years Frostbuster for a meeting this weekend to nail some things down.
I think you'll like this one. Some changes are a foot, all good of course.
I think the way we think of it is, we want to put the fun and fellowship in the forefront of this contest.
Info should be coming very soon.

Reply
Dave Compton link
1/6/2012 05:11:06 pm

Ray, I want to take this opportunity to sign up for this year's Frost Buster. This is one of the best ideas that has come down the highway in a long time. Count me in!

Reply



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    Dave Compton
    June 5, 1948 - Dec 19, 2020

    Dave Compton wrote this blog prior to being elected to the Kansas City Board of Directors. Hope you enjoy reading Dave's thoughts and opinions on BBQ.

    When Dave passed away in 2020, it was sad to see him go. On a positive note, Dave is now with our Lord & Savior Jesus in Heaven.

    One day we will meet again, my friend. - HK

    DAVE'S BBQ BIO:

    KCBS Master BBQ Judge

    Competition Cook

    Judged over 100 BBQ Competitions

    KCBS Board Member and served on KCBS committees including
    Philanthropy and
    Rules Committee.

    Known as Judge#6

    Loved making Smoked Cheese and shared with judges & cooks.

    Big sense of humor
    Big Heart
    Loved by all!


    VIDEO: Dave Compton recites the Judge's Oath at a contest in Nevada, Iowa and judges his 100th contest.

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